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Just educate kids on sex. The sites from Pornhub are way better than the virus filled alternatives with way worse kinds of porn.
I remember going on sketchy sotes to get logins and passwords to log into even sketchier porn sites.
Pornhub Is Pulling Out of France
So, Coitus Interruptus?
One day porn will have to be made by two friends with a tripod, a camera and a couch. They’ll have to edit their own video and share it ptp. People will go to state sales trying to buy old hard drives to try to locate classical bdsm porn and rare gangbang art work.
Dial-up BBS’s watching GIFs download at 2400 baud?
If they wanted parental controls they’d use the ones already available and ask their ISPs to provide additional and more accessible ones per SIM card, per contract (though manually setting up limitations on each device works better and should suffice). Mandatory age and ID verification for websites is an authoritarian policy through and through, and goes far past anything that would protect children in any way (in fact, it would harm them).
Pornhub Is Pulling Out of France
risqué contraception method
Les Contraception Dangereux
xD
“Adults are free to consume porn, but not at the expense of protecting our children,” Chappaz said in a tweet Tuesday, according to an English language translation. “Asking pornographic sites to verify the age of their users is not about stigmatizing adults, but about protecting our children.”
These fuckers always throw around the term “protecting our children” when they want to do something shitty. Companies like Pornhub actually have strick controls to actually protect children with their anti-CP policies. By forcing them to adopt these bullshit government controls, it only moves users to less legitimate sites without anti-CP policies.
Companies like Pornhub actually have strick controls to actually protect children with their anti-CP policies.
To be fair, that’s a more recent thing. It had some terrible content in the past. Then around 2020 that got some publicity so Visa, Mastercard and Discover all threatened blacklist them if they didn’t start moderating properly.
Although your point still stands, the whole “Wont somebody think of the children!?!11” lamentation is a dead giveaway. And I’m sad that more people don’t realize.
Yeah, using kids as a baseball bat to bash their way forward
^ <every authoritarian government on earth and in human history>
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I was an active user of pornhub when I was 14 years old
I was a teenager before the modern internet, so at 14 I got my porn from BBSes and friends sharing floppy disks. There was plenty of awful/illegal shit on BBSes. But they weren’t regulated, so no one did anything about it.
You cannot ban teenagers from accessing porn. Full stop.
You can ban teenagers from using safe sites that follow the rules. That will force teenagers off responsible sites like PornHub and move them to shady sites that don’t follow rules and have shit like child pornography.
This and to add to this:
They know this already. This is not a new subject, this has been going on for decades and every time it ends the same and it keeps coming back because they only need to win once. Once porn becomes illegal, good luck making it back legal again
And that depends on what asshole you’re dealing with, the religious virtua signalling asshole or the “must monitor and control all citizens always” type asshole.
The latter does the same shit, just for slightly different reasons. assholes sometimes have similar goals and all.
Either way, it’s NEVER about actually protecting the children because fuck children, no politician has ever actually cared for a child (far and few exceptions excluded)
Basically, if a politician talks about protecting children, they’re lying, period.
True. Damn.
Also agreed, it is insanely hard to legalize stuff after it was made illegal for stupid emptionalized reasons. Various drugs, gay marriage, equal rights, abolition of borders etc.
I grew up in the 1970’s and 80’s. Even then porn wasn’t hard to find.
Exactly. There’s a reason prostitution is called “the world’s oldest profession”. People have biological needs. Banning kids from using legitimate porn sites isn’t going to undo millions of years of evolution.
There’s a reason prostitution is called “the world’s oldest profession”.
Yes, it’s because it’s a lazy, overused sentence that people like to quote without thinking. There’s no solid ground to claim that prostitution is the world’s oldest profession.
People have biological needs.
Those “biological needs” aren’t porn. You can masturbate without porn. You can fantasize without porn. You can have sex without porn. And so on.
I’m not saying that this is a good measure, but “teenagers are interested in sex” ⇒ “we shouldn’t restrict what sexual media teenagers have access to” isn’t a very sound argument.
legitimate porn sites
“Legitimate” porn sites are all full of things I really wish I hadn’t seen as a middle schooler who was barely starting to get curious about sex. Or even as a high schooler who was decidedly interested in sex, actually.
That will force teenagers off responsible sites like PornHub and move them to shady sites that don’t follow rules and have shit like child pornography.
Or to places like 4chan and Xitter, sites that host actual nazi shit in addition to porn. I was ideologically groomed by the far-right, and nazi propaganda is worse than porn IMHO to developing minds. I barely managed to escape.
Parental responsibility? Plenty of resources on the internet to block adult sites at the router and on device. If that’s to technical they can get device lockers and only let their kids use them in communal areas of the home and lock them up otherwise.
There are so many options for parents that actually care that the idea the only solution is a government nanny on the internet is the height of ridiculous.
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You can’t force anyone to care about anything all you can do is educate them. After that if they do nothing then they clearly don’t care if little Johnny or Susie are having personal time while browsing porn.
Most importantly of all the government has no business knowing what legal porn each adult does and does not consume in the name of “protecting children”. It is the same bullshit argument governments use as a reason to require encryption backdoors.
That’s very true.
So should the supermarket check the ID before selling alcohol, or is it the parent’s responsability too?
Jokes aside, I think the problem is that most parents are not technically capable of configuring a router at home, and even if some did, as most don’t kids would just go to those homes or use those phones to watch it, I guess?
Like I get it, but this will never work, unless you force every parent to visit classes about phone and router configuration.
So should the supermarket check the ID before selling alcohol, or is it the parent’s responsability too?
I’m from the US where the drinking age is 21. A lot of my friends growing up bought illegal drugs because they were easier to get than alcohol.
To buy beer, you had to find someone’s older brother and convince him to buy it for you, or find homeless guy and give him some money.
Or you could just hit up Nathaniel on the street corner to get some weed or ecstacy. Nathaniel didn’t give a shit about your ID.
So should the supermarket check the ID before selling alcohol, or is it the parent’s responsability too?
Horrible comparison since the supermarket/liquor store doesn’t enter your info into a database but just checks your DOB to make sure you are old enough. At least in the US.
Jokes aside, I think the problem is that most parents are not technically capable of configuring a router at home, and even if some did, as most don’t kids would just go to those homes or use those phones to watch it, I guess?
Hence my inclusion of a nontechnical option: device lockers. As far as kids using someone else’s device at someone else’s home you can’t protect kids from everything everywhere all the time. You can talk to the parents of other kids and explain what you do and why. You could even offer your technical expertise, if you have it, to do the same for them or share links to device lockers.
I didn’t downvote but the reason is probably because you’re blaming porn for your issues like it was only an issue because of your age.
If you became an addict because of porn at 14, not seeing porn until you’re 18 wouldn’t have changed anything, except delay that problem for 4 years. That’s it. People don’t just become addicts if they’re only a certain age range, the problem is much deeper than that.
Debatable. I had no phone or TV as a child and now I am addicted years later. But my developing brain grew up not needing these stimuli.
This is pretty important, so a delay might be very helpful
didn’t you just provide anecdotal evidence for their point rather than against?
Yes they did, but also contextualized that even if the addiction occurs later, the delay has value.
Addiction is not binary.
oh now i get what they were saying.
Yes, it is okay for teenagers to watch porn. Pretty much everyone did, at least everyone I know. None of these people have any problems because of it. There certainly are people with unhealthy relationships to porn, but the same can be said about basically all things. You wouldn’t ban video games because gaming addicts exist, would you?
A ban such as this only makes sense for things without any upside, like gambling. But exploring your own sexuality is a natural and healthy thing to do. Porn is an easy way to do that.
You wouldn’t ban video games because gaming addicts exist, would you?
Oh they tried so often it’s a fecking meme at this point and they won’t stop.
Well, yes. But it hasn’t worked yet because it is so fucking dumb.
Why do you wish it was less accessible? I was in the same boat but I feel it was largely a source of sexual satisfaction and even education in some cases. And today I have many and very healthy relationships with women, just to preempt those questions.
Despite decades-long moral panic around this topic, I haven’t found much evidence for pornography harming young people, maybe aside from some niche issues that are not well-addressed with this type of legislation.
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Based on my reading, porn addiction isn’t a real medical condition and is largely driven by internalized or external stigma around porn usage. Usually, but not always stemming from a religious worldview that shames people for masturbating or having an interest in sex outside of the context of heterosexual marital procreation.
There could be small numbers of people who truly have an unhealthy relationship with porn, but if so, they are greatly outnumbered by the people I described above, such that I haven’t found research on their experiences.
There will always be a way to access it. The more they try to stop it, the less legal it becomes and the more illegal the content might become.
There is only one true solution and that is to hold parents accountable and to educate the kids on the risks. Everything else is just bullshit and only helps to destroy the privacy of adults.
Tell us how your guilt and shame forces you to make decisions for others.
- do you think it’ll make you feel better about yourself?
- if rules must be made so you feel better about your choices, can we enforces rules on you when it would make us feel better about ourselves?
This is a strange matrix of control you’re suggesting, and I want to understand it.
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These authoritarian laws are such a boon for VPN companies.
*goon
Everyone with a libido goons. Grow up.
some edge
If porn does any damage to the psyche, surely it’s less than videos you can find showing torture and murder, right? At least in porn, people are shown having a good time. I’ll also note that no porn is burned into my brain, but there are sure some other videos that are.
There is a certain video about some people and a cup burned into memory, but that video wouldn’t be found on the sites owned by Pornhub, but more the shitty alternative sites who will never comply with rules and regulations.
(Just light headed talk here) because I was born before internet, I remember the first porn magazine I saw (at 11, I think), the first porn magazine I bought (at 14, because fuck the rules) and the first porn film I watched (at 13 because my father had a video store). Those are definitely burned in my brain.
Yeah, I remember watching scrambled TV for hours waiting for the few brief seconds it came in clear.
It only happened twice but it is also seared into my brain.
I can’t deny that there are both awful violent videos and excellent porn burned into my brain. (Shouting out you, Scarlet Chase, Alexis Texas, and Anna Claire Clouds)
While consuming porn your body is producing the feelgood hormones, like dopamine, just like every other drug, including social media. Do it often enough and your brain gets used to it, and can’t do without.
And it’s just as harmful. Have a look at “Your brain on porn” which is a book about problematic porn consumption, but can be expanded to every other dopamine creating vice out there.
Wait, we aren’t supposed to have daily dopamine?
You are, but not as instant gratification, but as the result of work of some kind.
Does masturbation without porn count as “work”?
Handjobs show good work ethic
Same with blowjobs and rimjobs. Anything with “job” in it, really.
It does imho. You are somewhat forced to use your imagination and explore what you like both mentally and physically instead of hyperfixating on a screen, which will lead to a better experience alone and with someone else.
So you can’t play board games? That’s not work of some kind.
You are purposely missing the point. Just research instant gratification.
This is Wikipedia on the guy who started the site:
Wilson argued, counter to relevant experts in the subject, that porn addiction is a public health issue,[11] and said it led to negative effects such as depression and erectile dysfunction.[13] According to Jason Winters, a lecturer on human sexuality in the department of psychology at the University of British Columbia “There is no research showing that Internet pornography causes mental disorders — none”.[14]
His vita is partly problematic, but he clearly states that this claim goes against the research currently available. One of the reasons is that it would be hard to justify necessary studies morally. Another one is that porn is a giant industry with many “independant” contractors who want to justify themselves. Also, the hyper availability of porn as we know it today over the internet is a pretty young phenomenon. As a comparison, there was a time not too long ago when smoking was advised by doctors.
Anyways, it’s always funny to see the cognitive dissonance of people when it comes to negative effects of instant gratification like with drugs, social media, overeating or any other thing that can seriously fuck with your mind when done wrong or too early in life, but porn always somehow gets trivialized out of that exact discussion. Maybe it’s because it affects us all, just like covid, and that did not foster a healthy culture of discussion as well iirc. It also kind of reminds me of stoners trying to tell you that weed is not addictive.
There are enough issues in our modern society where this could, not alone by itself, and as we both stated just as a scientifically unproven claim for now, be part of the explanation. I’d say let’s wait until AI gets shoved into this equation as well for long enough to see what it does to the people lol.
I find it a bit curious. You’re choosing to believe one guy who scrolled Reddit a bit too long and whose Tedx talk to a large actually consists of reading aloud r/nofap comments over actual scientists who research this stuff with some rigor.
That’s not to say porn doesn’t have negative effects. But confidently basing theories on anecdotal evidence is not getting us much closer to truth, is it?
I always choose the side of science, but coming to false conclusions and questioning things later on has always been a part of that. Labelling scientific findings as ground truth in a world that changes so rapidly, especially in media and its consumption, seems a bit ignorant to me. Porn not being harmful is such a conclusion imho.
Also noporn does not equal nofap and people use those topics interchangeably on purpose it seems. Sadly that one guy I picked seems to be just a troubled soul with the right intention but wrong execution which is being used as an excuse for people to justify their own behaviour, which is comprehensible.
But then again, probably I myself am wrongfully shouting in the void here. I am not a bigot trying to convey people into thinking what they are doing every day is inherently bad for no reason, but a guy who thinks that this is an overlooked and trivialized topic. As with every controversial and emotional topic though, discussing this with a hivemind is difficult to impossible.
There’s people with addictive tendencies and such without / with less of them. That said, your generic statement is bullshit. Many people can enjoy porn frequently without any addiction symptoms.
Are we not doing “Phrasing!” anymore?
Pulling out 🤭
It’s kinda weird seeing this from Germany: Around here porn websites always required a proper age check (“are you 18” banners don’t suffice), which in effect means that the few porn sites that are hosted in Germany are paid (if you’re paying, an age check is trivial). That doesn’t mean that the rest is inaccessible, but it certainly doesn’'t have a .de TLD. It’s just how laws written for the offline age translated to online.
What’s stopping pornhub from having a similar strategy in France? Continue to accept French IPs for the international version, paywall the French version.
What’s stopping pornhub from having a similar strategy in France? Continue to accept French IPs for the international version, paywall the French version.
Pornhub is ideologically against having to collect and verify data on their users for the government. They block traffic in all areas that pass these kinds of laws as a protest.
Rare corporate W.
Edit: I take that back. Apparently, they want device level verification
Doesn’t seem like a real requirement if Pornhub and similar sites can get away with their “only click if you’re 18”-banners just the same. Making a distinction between sites hosted inside Germany and outside Germany doesn’t seem like smart lawmaking to me.
It’s also “sites directed at a German audience”, but using that as a justification for DNS bans is rare. I guess practically more relevant is that German google isn’t serving up those international sites.
German law doesn’t require 100% security when it comes to youth protection stuff, not only would that be impossible but it’s also not the intent, because once kids are old enough to actively seek something out, they’re by and large old enough to consume it. What youth protection really cares about is not having kids just stumble over things they have no reference frame for.
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And can be driven starting at 16 years old
Aylo was purchased by private equity firm Ethical Capital Partners in 2023, whose partner Solomon Friedman told reporters in a call Tuesday that the law is “ineffective” and “dangerous,” noting concerns over privacy. “It’s a matter of putting our values first, and that means communicating directly with the French people to tell them what their government is refusing to tell them,” Friedman said, according to Politico.
Despite the name, of course they would be against this. I mean they are right in their reasoning, but laws like these will hurt their revenue as well, which might as well be the reason for their stance on this after all.
Yeah, this is 100% self-preservation. The article says they are in favor of age verification but want it done at the device level which is a much larger threat to privacy.
Depends on how it is done. You know those 2FA fobs that just pass a code every 30 seconds, right? What if you made some kind of fob or chip that you can only get from the government when you are 18+ (here in NL that would be easy because most things are 18plus locked) then if you could use that for online gambling, porn, buying alcohol online, etc. it wouldn’t be linked to your person. If the government doesn’t keep track of who has which fob/card. Which is easy to check if you get an accountant to do a formal audit on them, keeping track or not. I know PureVPN had done an audit like that checking if they kept themselves on their own no logs policy.
There is zero chance it would be implemented in a way that would protect privacy.
If it wouldn’t protect privacy then it wouldn’t be GDPR compliant.
https://ageverification.dev/Technical Specification/architecture-and-technical-specifications/#22-design-principles it is mentioned under 2.2 Design Principles
Note I haven’t read everything about it or seen any code surrounding it.
GDPR is for commercial products, not government mandated ID.
Pretty sure, the rights that European citizens get based on GDPR also apply when dealing with the government(s). Generally, governments are splintered into multiple parts and every part is only allowed to keep their relevant data.
Anyway, the government as a whole just doesn’t need to know what sites you visit and the companies don’t need to see your personal information or any identifier. If they can just check if that number correspond to a true or false, it’s enough.
How is this going to work? They’ll ban all French IPs?
Yes. They already do this to some states in the USA that have similar laws.
VPNs get around this just fine.
That’s what I thought. What a dumb law.
