I assume it’s probably a colossal process to uproot and move infrastructure, but personally I see that eventual hassle as being better than the project never getting enough momentum in the first place.

I think once you actually have a project and audience you can make all the most ideal choices but they do come with costs that really matter when you’re just starting things

I recognize I’m no expert on running these projects though

For all intents and purposes different Linux distros are different operating systems, built with some number of overlapping components (including the Linux kernel after which they’re named) so unfortunately no :/

Best of luck to you in whatever changes you decide you wanna pursue!

Is it better for them to build an open source app and host their meetings on Zoom, a platform familiar to the audience they’re hoping to bring, or for them to just not, and for local cooperative banks to all build their own in-house proprietary banking apps with no open source option existing?

I’d really like it if we stopped letting perfect be the enemy of good. My credit union uses an app that’s just a webview wrapper for their website. I haven’t taken a look at the project but a native app built as an open source community project would be fucking awesome, regardless of whether they host video meetings with zoom or jitsi.

They want their project to succeed. A free software project that dies doesn’t actually provide anyone with freedoms; hosting with the more well known and familiar video hosting software when they have no existing audience is the right choice.

Thank you! You too 😊

I’m very familiar with and agree with the Nazi bar metaphor, and said as much in one of my very first comments I made in the discussion under this post. At no point have I advocated letting Lemmy be a Nazi bar. And we don’t exactly have many fascists here compared to other platforms, Lemmy is almost exclusively leftists.

Being kind to your fellow lemmites is not making this platform a Nazi safe haven, it just makes it a social space actually worth spending time in.

The first was in reference to when someone expresses an idea you don’t understand or a perspective you don’t share, and the latter was about the tendency to just keep scrolling and say nothing even when you like a post or comment, but I can see why you interpreted them that way.

In my experience when someone is expressing their thoughts they generally take kindly to folks asking them about why they see things the way they do 🤷‍♂️

Personally I don’t see calling people Russian bots/trolls or accepting harmful behaviour as the only available options.

I don’t think the former is at all productive or helps anything, and the latter is completely unacceptable. But those aren’t our only options when we decide how we want to engage with people we disagree with

and again, fascists are not the only people with whom disagreements happen on lemmy. We’re literally disagreeing right now, if you called me a Russian bot I think that would be silly and unproductive. That’s literally my whole point. Not everyone you disagree with is arguing in bad faith 🤷‍♂️

You know what, I can respect that take. I was trying to tailor things to my audience, you’re not wrong though :)

That took my brain a hot minute to process lol. Is that actually from something or did you just invent it on the spot? 😅

“I am filled with fear and tormented with terrible visions of pain. Everywhere people are hurting one another, the planet is rampant with injustices, whole societies plunder groups of their own people, mothers imprison sons, children perish while brothers war. O, woe.”

"But nobody wants it! Everybody hates it.

"OH. WELL, THEN STOP.

Unironically wisdom we should all learn from. I can’t stop for other people but I can at least choose how I act, and whether I contribute to that pain suffering and discord.

I agree. You can get a lot of positive reinforcement from sincere positive engagement (this post gave me lots, lol 😅) but it’s exhausting work compared to just making a snide jab. And that really does profoundly shape peoples behavior over time.

I’m a BIG believer in the idea that the medium makes the message, and how we design the mechanics of this space shapes how we behave. Erin kissane has talked about that some in her work studying the fediverse and it’s really stuck with me.

Its definitely rough, I can understand why. I live in the US and as a queer person whose loved ones are almost all minorities the outlook is feeling pretty bleak, but its definitely frustrating that it feels like even slightly different left wing ideas, or thoughts on what we do about our problems can spawn flamewars.

Literally with people you’re in the exact same camp with :/ I’m also big on political debate, I think democracy can’t function unless people can discuss with eachother what problems we have and what we think we should do about them. (And yes, I know we increasingly may not have much of democracy here in the US. I still think my statement is true of how democracy functions in general)

I think it’s really valuable to learn how people arive at worldviews other than mine.

Yeah, if I don’t have the answer I usually just stop in to say I hope someone more knowledgeable can chime in and wish them luck.

That way the post at least gets a little engagement for visibility. But the “rtfm” attitude, while understandable, can be really miserable to be met with when you’re out of your depth doing your best to learn about something new and need some help from another actual human.

We all begrudge the automated phone systems that try to reduce the need for human beings by helping people with simple problems, and that approach to helping people exists for good reason but it does feel like sometimes we’re too eager to leave people to figure things out by themselves just because it’s a lot of work to actually help them, human to human. None of us enjoy being treated that way when we need help.

I think the use of violence is complicated. I think people are too eager to let their anger dictate their behavior.

I also think that if you always turn the other cheek you’re allowing cruelty, and you won’t be the only one to suffer it at the hands of said cruelty.

I’m interested in what’s effective. I care about the outcome. I think kindness often has the outcome I want.

I also think that if you lived through the Nazi regime, you’d be justified in shooting Hitler. You’d be justified in taking up arms to protect your loved ones from persecution, or execution at the hands of a group that needs victims to fuel its political machine.

I’m not inclined to believe my anger always dictates the best course of action. I’m also not inclined to believe that my desire to be friends with everyone will always be enough to build a world that isn’t ruled by profound cruelty. I think those two ideas can co-exist.

I can understand your anger, I’m in the same boat, but I really wasn’t asking you to do that :( I was asking you to be kind to the people here. That you share this space with.

I wish I had left this list of examples in the original post where I had them at first

• Compliment people’s art and ask about their process
• Teach people about something you’re knowledgeable on
• Give constructive criticism on peoples projects when it’s welcome
• Thank people for posting things you’re glad you got to see, tell them you enjoyed it
• Tell people you’re glad they’re here
• Tell people you hope they have a good day

I moved them to a comment because I have a bad habit of being really long winded and I wanted people to actually read the whole post, but I think moving them and leaving “try to approach people you disagree with with curiosity rather than hostility” prompted a lot of folks to interpret what I was saying as “tell the Nazis who want to debate your humanity that all their views are swell, actually”

What I meant is exactly what didn’t happen in our interaction with eachother. I’m a queer leftist whose humanity is debated by the right. You don’t completely agree with me and that’s okay, but I’m not deserving of your hostility.

We may not see things exactly the same way but I care just as much about combating fascism as you do; everyone I love save for some of my family is a minority with a target on their back in the eyes of the current administration.

I wish I could have made it more clear what I meant. I’ve gotten lots of comments more or less insinuating that I’m encouraging we all complicit in the rise of fascism. And it’s not a big percentage, but I’m still a human being who hears 12 people forcefully telling me that, and it doesn’t feel great.

That’s not what I’m advocating. I’m advocating that when you don’t completely see eye to eye with someone, you ask them what they mean (and also lots of other things, like giving compliments and telling folks you appreciate their post, etc. etc. ect., but I feel like how to handle disagreement is the specific idea in question).

WE don’t see exactly eye to eye. You and other commenters here don’t see exactly eye to eye. And that’s okay. Being willing to talk with them or me about what they think and why doesn’t help the Nazis.

(Like I said I’m really long winded 🙃 sorry for the wall of text, I know it’s not even the first one I’ve replied with to you specifically 😅)

I think there’s a fine line between banter and trying to humiliate folks, and sometimes it’s awfully hard to find.

I don’t really mind banter or jokes, but the idea that it’s humor is often what people hide behind when they’re being cruel and want to excuse their behavior.

If you can find that line and still be respectful of the human beings you’re engaging with, I don’t think there’s anything at all wrong with that :) enjoy your banter!

I love that connection, it’s very much like the PBS of social media :)

It’s a rough time, not helped by how profoundly important politics is right now. And the more broken the state of things get, the more divided we become, and the harder it gets to look others in the eyes and be okay with what they’re supporting :(

I don’t think there’s any easy answer. But I do think it helps to confront people who are doing harm, and open sincere dialogue with people you disagree with (when theyre willing to engage in good faith. No point otherwise.) And try to understand how they got where they are, and share why you don’t agree with them

It does! Small changes over time can add up to incredible people skills and the ability to win hearts and minds ❤️

Thank you so much for the kind words my friend, I hope you have a lovely day!

I fuckin love the hear that, I hope we can foster even more of that. It can be so hard online but I really think it’s worth it. This space is only as good and as worthwhile as we make it ❤️

Active listening is a powerful skill!